--- Topic for #press is Watch as those of us with working connections try to summarize the Press announcement
--- Topic for #press set by muet at Wed Aug 16 04:52:40 2000
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<jdub> smeggy real. ;)
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<RST> no sound hardware
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* telsa is in the front seat, get out of my way, you tall people.
<halcyon> http://play.rbn.com/?vdat/vdat/live/vdat000815a.ra is the actual location btw.
* jdub ducks
* halcyon flicks some popcorn at telsa.
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<mmarker> Hmmm
<halcyon> it's so exciting.
* mmarker waits for the link to appear
<jdub> golly
<Ansimorph> I hope that will be archived
<jdub> mmarker: you want the ra link?
<mmarker> there we go
<Ansimorph> ... for future generations
<mmarker> got it, buffering now
<halcyon> mmarker: nothing's happening yet.
<mmarker> audio only...good
<jdub> o/~ silence is golden... o/~
<jdub> hey -> who's summarising?
<norpan> 30 secs
<halcyon> muet: you're summarising right?
<halcyon> hurry up and sitt down people.
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<muet> eeeks - Mine isn't working :(
<mmarker> Sounds like a toilet
<norpan> Hey
* Ansimorph gets some popcorn
<Thlayli> yikes
<norpan> Should start now
<muet> It worked fine when it said "It isn't ready yet" :(
<halcyon> quick someone offer to be summeriser.
<mmarker> U hear some static
<muet> I think they haven't turned on the volume yet.
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<jdub> mmarker: aye
<jlbec> mine doesn't work at all
<jlbec> RA doesn't fire up
<mmarker> "Let them eat static"
<halcyon> muet: they better not damn forget!!
<jdub> should i part #gnome to save bandwidth?
* jdub hmms
<jlbec> It wants me to "save as"
<norpan> I get flashbacks from "Contact"
<jdub> norpan: heh
<raph> pnm://ags-va03.rbn.com/vdat/vdat/live/vdat000815a.ra
<jelle> hah
<mmarker> there is life
<muet> They will probably just start a few minutes late.
<norpan> Sound!
<mmarker> Muhahahaha
<halcyon> eeek! starting!!
<jdub> where?
<jdub> oh there.
<halcyon> ok can hear fuck all.
<jdub> someone playing with the mic... very professional :)
<norpan> Some mumbling
<mmarker> yea
<jlbec> raph: thanks
<muet> ah - back to "This presentation not yet available"
<raph> a cough
<halcyon> hehe.
<raph> (this is going to be a fun blow by blow :)
<jlbec> heh
<halcyon> rofl.
<raph> miggie!
<mmarker> raph: and my fav is
<raph> wow, this works
<jlbec> good old miguel
<raph> ok there we go
<telsa> (Nope, it's conveying the atmosphere perfectly.)
* jdub must be lagging on the ra
<jlbec> Lord High Primate
<mmarker> Oh crap
<Thlayli> "the monkeys!
<mmarker> slow down
<raph> today , I'm speaking on behalf of the gnome project
<raph> two announcements:
<raph> gnome foundation, and five major annoucements of members of the gnome foundation
<RST> okay
<RST> so that's six announcements
<raph> gnome began 3 years ago to address a number of shortcomings in unix
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<RST> six announcements:
<RST> heh
<raph> we decided to fix some of the problems we found
<raph> gnome is a free software project
<RST> is this gonna be like the spanish inquisition skit?
<raph> the benefits have been driven by free software (also known as open source)
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<raph> free software is all about freedom, it's not about price
<RST> objection! free software isn't the same as open source!
<raph> you can improve, extend, adapt it
<jlbec> *audio blip*
<Thlayli> RST: quiet
<jdub> (he sounds like dr. sbaitso with all that compression)
<RST> look at www.gnu.org
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<raph> that's why Linux is popular, it gives you all these freedoms
<RST> Thlayli: why? can't we make fun of the presentation like in MST?
<raph> gnome's actually an umbrella project
<halcyon> RST: shhhh.
<Thlayli> RST: discuss in #gnome, please
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<RST> okay
<RST> nay
<RST> nah
<raph> gnome is basically a foundation, it's a component foundation, a set of libraries, a user interface toolkit
<RST> how about #press.d like in usenet
<raph> gnome is a very big project
<muet> GNOME is more than a user interface
<raph> many people associate gnome with just the user interface
<RST> for discussion join #press.d
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<RST> i'll quit talking now
<raph> just the topmost layer
<raph> when we began gnome, it was all-volunteer
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<muet> RH was first to join GNOME
<raph> we were soon joined by rhat
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<raph> since then, we have seen a number of companies created entirely based on gnome
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<raph> helix, eazel, and henzai in the last year
<jlbec> ack
<raph> gnome is being maintained and developed by 500 developers
<raph> we're about to make a new release of gnome, the 1.4 release
<raph> which will include new applications, and bugfixes
<raph> the major change is 2.0, which will be released next year
<raph> gnome has grown a lot, there are many vendors who are putting their weight behind gnome
<raph> so we needed a way for all these developers, many of whom work for gnome companies, to talk together
<mmarker> (now introducing the players)
<whatever> <exit stage left?>
<mmarker> Jim Gettys, Nat, Bob Young, etc.
<raph> the board includes brian from collab.net, jim gettys, (?), tim ney, linas (?), bertrand from henzai, nat from helix, martin, bob young from redhat, marco from son
<jlbec> go mig
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<raph> (someone from ibm, from hp)
<jlbec> "before it got bought"
<raph> chris from va linux
<raph> turbolinux is also joining
<jdub> "bob young from redhat if you couldn't figure it out"
<raph> this foundation is mostly made up of developers and contributros
<muet> Jim Gettys - Compaq, Linas Vespas (Gnumatic I think  - Gnucash)
<raph> it's not made up of companies
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<raph> the foundation is a mechanism for letting other companies join the gnome effort
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<raph> (...) and create a more integrated platform
<raph> first initiative is to have a unified environment for linux and unix platforms
<raph> <marco from sun>
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<jelle> Was that just static or did my seti@home *finally* find something out there?
<raph> Marco Burrias(?), vp of WebTop and app s/w at sun
<raph> responsible for star office, solaris desktop, and browser
* oscillon joins the party
<mmarker> Shhhh
<raph> customers clearly requested more modern desktop
* jlbec is having buffering problems
<raph> do we put life into cde, do something ourselves, or follow another project?
<Coverfire> ls
<raph> I made the proposal inside sun
<raph> phone
<mmarker> ok
<halcyon> mmarker: go.
<raph> ... to try to make this (the adoption of gnome) happen
<mmarker> Marco is really happy about this
<raph> I'm happy about this - it's important
<mmarker> It unifies the existing UNIX and Linux world
<raph> it unifies the unix world with the linux world
<raph> 85% of the api is to the ui
<jlbec> I'm really into the Sun/HP adoption
<raph> having that the same is a great thing for developers and also end users
<raph> ...creating a very exciting user environment
--- muet gives channel operator status to raph
<raph> easy to use, easy to install and maintain, fully competitive
<raph> gnome foundation will make this happen
<raph> it's kind of a long time that we have been doing this (16 years)
<raph> more then just another desktop
<raph> by basing on open source, everybody who will contribute will be sure that nobody else will close him out
* jlbec notes that raph's latency + typing + irc latency is faster than my ra latency
<raph> sun will adopt gnome as the future default desktop for solaris
<raph> i'm really excited about that
<raph> (so is miguel)
<raph> given sun's market position, this is a great step
<raph> I'm really excited about working with gnomers to make this happen
<raph> not only on pc's but also workstations and also other devices
<raph> <martin fink from hp> r&d lab manager
<raph> responsible for hpux and linux activities, basic system turnon and drivers
<raph> also desktop environment for hpux
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<raph> timing turned out to be good for us
<raph> a number of months ago, we started looking at where is the desktop going?
<raph> hp is in cde today
<raph> we were looking at open source alternatives
<raph> gnome foundation brought everything together for us
<raph> hp's strategy is multi-os
<raph> hp is also announcing support for gnome, and making gnome default desktop environment for hpux
<raph> goal is a common environment for [everybody]
<raph> the winners will be the customers
<raph> many attempts to do this before (including cde0
<raph> with gnome, it's finally coming together, thanks to miguel
<raph> hp wants to contribute to gnome: try to provide interoperability
<raph> miguel spoke at ols about the direction of gnome; evolution, bonobo, components
<raph> hp has been for 7+ years contributing to corba and been a leader
<raph> hp has a lot of technology there for interoperability
<raph> including a com/corba gateway
<raph> useful for enterprise environments
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<raph> talking to miguel about how to make that technology available
<raph> for unixes
<raph> <miguel> I'm not responsible for gnome
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<raph> the people responsible for gnome are the developers, some are here now
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<raph> owen, jrb, hp, martin baulig (suse), dave mason
<raph> eskil (pilot integration), george lebl, andy hertzfeld, mjs
<raph> [stumbling over mjs's name]
<Thlayli> hehe
<raph> ramiro, working on mozilla integration for eazel
<raph> mathieu, documenting bonobo
<raph> keithp, advises us on xwindows
<raph> bart, a lot of work on the foundation
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<raph> dave camp, working on debugging
<raph> a lot of other people with faces and names
<raph> gnome is adopting open office and the open office technologies into gnome
<raph> as you know, sun released *o under dual license, gpl and one other
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<raph> sun made the right decision, so it's now fully compatible
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<raph> <marco>
<raph> about 4 weeks ago, on top of making the gnome effort happen,
<raph> I also brought *o inside side
<raph> our goal is to drive the file formats and api's into commodity
<raph> because that's what's creating the lockup
<raph> so we decided to open source *o
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<raph> if you do your research, you'll find that linux/gpl community is the best group to actually support this
<raph> we chose openoffice.org and the gpl licesnse
<raph> other license is the sun industry license (for gpl holdouts)
<raph> main focus is gpl license
<raph> by the way, it's 5.5-6M loc
<raph> it's a big system
<raph> not bloat, but big in terms of functionality [laugh]
<raph> xml office file formats
<raph> end of the week or next week, will publish xml file formats
<raph> [audio cutout :(]
<jdub> doh
<jdub> same her
<jlbec> doh
<halcyon> *end.
<mmarker> ugh, you too
<mmarker> crap
<Ansimorph> me too :(
<halcyon> double crap.
<_RST> well someone get it back!
<norpan> seems like everybody suffered
<jdub> can't reconnect
<Ansimorph> it just gives me a "not avaible" message on reconnect
<jdub> "general error. an error occurred"
<alephnull> chalk one up for technology...
<halcyon> raph: your typing was perfectly in time with my latency:)
* raph types fast :)
<jdub> buffereing!
<mmarker> this presentation is not yet available
<mmarker> Oh crap
* rahga checks out raph's internal buffer framework....
<halcyon> please check back shortly.
<norpan> sigh
<_RST> sucks huh?
<raph> we were also working with the gnome community on the desktop stuff
<lewing> back up
<norpan> That's what happens when you use proprietrary file formats
<_RST> btw anyone who wants to discuss this join #press.d
<raph> 1. adding reliability
<raph> 2. i18n
<raph> 3. accessibility
<raph> (these are core competencies within sun)
<alephnull> rofl!
<alephnull> let them tell me why my solaris nfs server crashes 3 times a week!
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<raph> not only adopting gnome as default desktop on solaris, but also working to make openoffice a good thing
<raph> <miguel>
<raph> internally, these applications are built as smaller components
<raph> we plan to reuse those
<raph> (spelling, hyphenation, etc)
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<_RST> someone log this so i can read it later?
<raph> this will enable 3rd party vendors to reuse these components, both from open office and gnome
* alephnull is logging
<jdub> _RST: yes. ssshhh. :)
<raph> <nat> cofounder of helix
<raph> very excited to be here today, duh [laugh]
<raph> we started as a company to drive the maturation of gnome
<muet> <Nat>
<raph> we saw gnome as a very strong platform, but lacking the last polish
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<raph> so we targetted the accessibility of gnome, make it easy to install and use
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<raph> make it so the hundred small things that could go wrong do not go wrong
<raph> hence helix gnome, somewhat like redhat linux
<raph> open office fills this huge gap
<raph> on top of that, there are other things that are necessary
<raph> you don't interact with the silicon, you say "I want to get on the network, I want to talk to my friends"
<raph> hence evolution, a groupware tool: email, contact mgr, etc
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<raph> reach and exceed functionality of other commercial offerings, which you might have heard of [laugh]
<raph> also meet the needs of modern users, high volume of mail
<raph> 3. must be modular, component base
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<raph> evolution is an enormous test case for bonobo
<raph> hope to attain a high level of interoperability
<raph> seamlessly with outlook and notes
<raph> excited to be here, evolution is our contribution
<raph> linas is going to talk to us about gnucash
<raph> <linas, president of gnumatic>
<raph> gnumatic is developer of gnucash, a quick and intuitive way to manage your money [laugh]
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<raph> one of the needed pieces
<raph> we're basically thrilled to be here to support the gnome foundation
<raph> financial s/w will provide the bridge between e-commerce and the desktop
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<jdub> "QUICKEN INTUITive way" [laugh]
<raph> gnumatic hopes to be helping define that on the linux desktop, thank you
<mmarker> hmm, this is not a glowing ad for RealNetwork products
<raph> <miguel> bring people together in a number of ways
<raph> 1. gpl
<raph> 2. bonobo components
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<raph> (list of lots of gnome components)
<raph> integrating mozilla into the desktop
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<raph> when mozilla was released to the public 2 years ago, we were interested in integrating
<raph> reengineered the entire thing to be components based
<raph> mozilla is finally maturing
<raph> a lot of work on integrating mozilla as a bonobo component, joint eazel rhat netscape
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<raph> <bud tribble, vp, eng eazel>
<raph> very happy to be part of the gnome foundation
<raph> gnome community has managed to attract best and brightest s/w producers on the planet
<raph> now attracting interest of some of the better companies
<raph> eazel is focussed on making linux easy to use
<raph> both through s/w and web-based services
<raph> our main contribution to gnome foundation is nautilus
<raph> file manager, but also more than a file mgr
<raph> viewing all the different types of content
<raph> and seamlessly integrates web browsing
<raph> by embedding mozilla
<raph> so user's view includes local files, web content, and servives
<raph> including services that eazel provides, but also others
<raph> we're looking forward, and plan to be active contributors
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<raph> <miguel> ibm is announcing (some xp technology)
<raph> <dan fri, ibm> responsible for linux stuff
<raph> thrilled to be part of the foundation
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<raph> (<name> is who's speaking)
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<raph> facilitate development of web-based apps on the linux desktop
<raph> <miguel>
<raph> sash-xp is a way of developing javascript
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<raph> scripting language that runs on your web browser
<raph> 4th initiative
<raph> gnome is not just a desktop
<raph> can choose which components you want to run
<raph> maybe layer makes sense on a workstation
<raph> but maybe not on a pda
<raph> but even if you change the ui, you can reuse all these components
<raph> ui, printing, pilot, etc
<raph> <bob young, rhat> miguel was very complimentary of the engineers he works to
<raph> but miguel is brilliant and enthusiastic himself
<raph> as an engineer and project leader
<raph> the big news is that one of the phenomenons (sic) that got rhat interested
<raph> is that the fundamental problem of industry consortia is hard is lawyers
<raph> and we don't have a single corporate lawyer in the room
<raph> we have not signed an agreement
<raph> under the open source model, the gpl license eliminates the need for trust
<raph> none of us can do things that don't work in the interest of the rest of us
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<raph> netscape release: how do you know that open source is not just a flash in the pan?
<raph> their response: the success of a technology has less to do with the technology than the momentum around it
<raph> as developers build apps for a platform, it attracts new customers, new customers attract developers
<raph> mozilla on those clients will be the dominant technology
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<raph> sun alone has 50 engineers working on mozilla
<raph> linus torvalds was asked about the gpl
<raph> why did you gpl it?
<raph> response: it was the best design decision that he made in the linux kernel
<raph> allowed him to build a bigger, better developer bas
<raph> than anything the commercial companies could do
<raph> components work great both at the micro and macro levels
<raph> you can do both feature-rich and slimmed down
<raph> future of this is very exciting
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<raph> thanks
<raph> <miguel> that was interesting
<raph> <jim gettys>
<raph> compaq's very delighted to be joining the gnome foundation
<raph> a few personal words: gnome is built on top of x windows system
<raph> I would like to thank the hackers here for working on completing our vision. Thank you very much
<raph> x was one of the early open source projects, to see it return is a delight to me, thank you again
<raph> compaq ipaq pda's
<raph> substantial piece of the gnome core running on this stuff
<raph> and will go further
<raph> the vision is that you should be able to run your applications
<raph> might use a display nearby - you have to think of distributed systems
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<raph> different than a pilot, not just a knob on the side of a machine
<raph> 16x the ram, 100x the cpu speed as the systems X was developed on
<raph> handhelds.org
<raph> thank you all
<raph> for taking x where we never even envisioned
<raph> <miguel>
<raph> all these people coming together today and working on the gnome foundation
<raph> I'm very grateful to john heard and mark for working on licensing issues
<raph> <brian>
<raph> how do you reconcile companies from corrupting the open source processes
<raph> there is no one answer
<jdub> [was a question to michael dell]
<raph> you have to stick to the meritocratic principles that make the open source process work
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<raph> we at collab.net hope to bottle and sell those principles
<raph> (that was a paraphrase :)
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<jdub> :)
<raph> we plan to help make that happen
<raph> <tim free software foundation>
<raph> I'm basically here to say Gnu/Linux [applause]
<raph> this is a bit like being at an engagement party
<raph> march of 99 was the debutante
<raph> when miguel announced 1.0
<raph> none of us anticipated the pace at which gnome would be adopted as the standard
<raph> no need to fear gnu, no need to fear gpl
<raph> there were about 25 licenses
<raph> we should celebrate the fact that a good % of the industry is adopting the gpl
<raph> we're passing the torch today
<raph> the fsf has provided what resources we've been able to
<raph> we don't have to outfit our booths with used furniture like we did in mar 99,
<raph> because we now have vc's
<raph> <chris dibona, va linux>
<raph> tim underplayed the importance of the gpl
<raph> the role of the gpl has been astounding
<raph> va has been shipping gnome for a number of years
<raph> va's been good about supporting projects
<raph> we see joining the gnome foundation as an extention of that
<raph> really happy to be here
<raph> had a printing summit about a month ago
<raph> phone
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<jdub> <fred>
<jdub> printing problem harder than you thing
<jdub> trying to work a solution together
<jdub> omg joining us
<jdub> specify the layer we're using for component architecture
<jdub> <oops, this is fred>
<jdub> corba a fundamental element
<jdub> of bonobo
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<jdub> omg's invollvement with in gnome foundation
<lxhispano> hello
<jdub> one activity is of technical nature
<jdub> dealing with corba technology
<raph> ok
<jdub> he has ten years expereince in heterogeneous interoperability
<jdub> strengthens ties with open source community
<raph> omg is a consortia (sic) of over 800 software companies worldwide
<raph> we have a process in place
* jdub phews
<raph> this relationship will allow us to work closer with your community
<raph> to fit your needs into our process
<raph> solicitation from the community for input
<raph> allow linux community to actually submit solutions
<raph> thank you
<raph> <miguel>
<raph> getting representation for the gnome project in the omg, in the standards process
<raph> 1. integration of linux/unix
<raph> 2. adoption of openoffice
<raph> 3. integration of mozilla together with sash
<raph> 4. all these companies getting together
<raph> 5. support for internet appliances and devices
<raph> bonobo's are endangered species
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<raph> michael tiemann is doing fundraising for the bonobo protection fund
<raph> primates closest to humans geneticalls
<raph> please donate
<raph> questions?
<raph> I'm supposed to pick [laugh]
<raph> [inaudible]
<raph> cde's going away, gnome coming's in?
<raph> when do you expect both sun and hp to see that happen?
<raph> <marco> cde customers are still going to see support, so they don't have to change
<raph> solaris will also provide cde libraries
<raph> to insure happy customers
<raph> sun is planning to do a pre-release by the end of the year
<raph> commercial build of gnome 2.0 within 1st half 2001
<raph> <hp guy> hp will continue to support and maintain cde environment
<raph> we also want to work on those customers migrating to gnome
<raph> provide transition tools
<raph> availability is tied to our releases of hpux
<raph> probably also 1st half 2001 for gnome desktop
<raph> many people internal to hp using gnome
<raph> looking at alternate release models
<raph> maybe an independent release stream later this year
<raph> <q> what about kde?
<raph> is kde going to get dropped
<raph> <bob young> we've always shipped both at rhat
<raph> the customer is in charge of the customer/vendor relationship
<raph> we're going to do exactly what the marketplace asks us to do
<raph> the guys as suse and others are going to move kde forward very aggressively
<raph> [audio cut]
<mmarker> as far as hpux is concerned
<jdub> va will ship both
<mmarker> gnome will be the default, and we will look into kde
<norpan> *mumble*
<raph> <miguel> what you're talking about is the bonobo component system
<raph> one of the kde guys wanted to see the merger
<raph> just one guy
<raph> it's possible, but nobody is doing it
<raph> <jg> these things share a lot of basic X infrastructure
<raph> apps built with kde, motif, gtk can all share the desktop
<raph> just because you choose one doesn't mean you can't run other applications
<raph> <miguel> that's why we are creating the gnome foundation, to satisfy all the needs of developers and users
<raph> I can talk for hours about bonobo, but the audience is going to fall asleep
<raph> talking about merging
<raph> sounds like owen's void
<raph> voice
<mmarker> it is owen
<raph> <bob young> competition is a good thng
<raph> gnome is much better as a result of the existence of kde
<raph> and vice versa
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<raph> too little competition is a bigger problem
<raph> a lot of people see it is a flaw of free software that ppl have to decide what to support
<raph> <bob young> would those people be in redmond? [laugh]
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<raph> <q> have you put together a security design, review, and audit team?
<raph> <miguel> some auditing, _a_ did some
<raph> we've put out fires
<raph> no exploit is known to exist yet
<raph> <nat> evolution has been compared to outlook, this is a question that has come up a lot
<raph> we don't have a formal process
<raph> we try to think about it as much as possible
<raph> it's a development attitude
<raph> we grew up on the internet, we naturally think of the network as potentially hostile
<raph> the attitude is different
<raph> it's something that's on our mind, maybe we should have a formal process
<raph> <q> gpl can help this, eg covert channels in proprietary s/w
<raph> <miguel> this is your way of joining the gnome effort, you can contribute
<raph> <q> for hp and sun ppl, with inclusion of gnome, are there going to be changes to the license of the operating systems
<raph> does hp have anything to contribute re printing?
<raph> <hp guy> so I'm going to be put on the spot for printing [laugh]
<raph> no plans to change the licensing of hpux
<raph> a lot of that has to do with the fact that hpux has technology licensed from other people
<raph> so we can't open source it overnight
<raph> and what does the customer get?
<raph> not part of the plans
<raph> I keep track of unix stuff, not printing stuff
<raph> <jim bell> hp is working heavily on the printing front in conjunction with va and sourceforge
<raph> we have a large project
<raph> talk to either the va folks or us afterwards
<raph> <miguel> no more questions?
<raph> <miguel> any closing remarks?
<raph> no more questions. good [applause]
<raph> end
<THA-BZ> Thanks raph!
<Thlayli> thanks raph!
<Jimbob> Good job raph
<acuster_> thank you
<norpan> dito
<voodoo> Thanks raph!
<jdub> thanks heaps raph... what stamina!
<Ansimorph> thx
<raph> np
<ole> Thanks a lot Raph
<telsa> Yay raph.
<bratislav> WOW! thansk raph
--- voodoo is now known as halcyon
<mmarker> raph is the man
<mmarker> and hell
* raph needs an rsi break :)
<halcyon> thanks raph.
<jdub> if raph can't do it, viavoice can!
<norpan> Let's not get overexcited about raph now :)
<lxhispano> thanks!!
<extrasola> Thanks
<mmarker> that was a press release and a half
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<jdub> mmarker: conference!
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<_RST> jdub: viavoice?
<mmarker> No
<mmarker> I mean the heavy handed stuff
<telsa> So, who's go the log? :)
<jdub> _RST: voice to text software
<mmarker> I could see Sun support
<jdub> telsa: i do - up in a sec
<mmarker> not "Sun and HP are gonna ditch CDE"
<jdub> okay - everyone smile for the log :)
* _RST smiles
* halcyon smiles:)
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<telsa> :)
<rhult> (:
<Nissen> :)
<Nether> :)
<_RST> >;)
* Ansimorph :)
<halcyon> :)
<jdub> three cheers for GNOME!
<jdub> ;)
<bratislav> :)
<mmarker> :)-8
<Thlayli> o_o
<ole> :)
<extrasola> :)
<_RST> | |
<_RST> \___/
<halcyon> :@)
<_RST> | |
<_RST>   |
<_RST> \___/
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<mmarker> (_|_)
<Nether> ^_^
<mmarker>   +
<_RST> lol mmarker
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<muet> Congrats everybody :)
<_RST> wait is that + a piece of shit?
<jdub> alright - back to coding you slackers :)

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